Dan Kimball, founding pastor of Vintage Faith Church in Santa Cruz, California, and author of several books including They Like Jesus but Not the Church, will be here in Columbia, Maryland on Tuesday, May 12. “A Day with Dan Kimball” is planned to be an interactive seminar with the author and pastor, in which he shares with us some of what he’s learned about the cultural scene in our world today and how it impacts church as we know it (or it should be). He’ll also dialogue with us about why so many people have strongly adverse reactions to the church even though they are favorable about Jesus Himself. You can still register for that event by clicking here. Details about time, address, cost and agenda are at the site.
So with that in mind, I posed a few questions to Dan about the framework for our learning time together.
David: Thanks, Dan, for your willingness to share a few of your thoughts about church and culture with us. Let’s start with the church. When you think of “the church as Jesus intended it,” how do you describe or picture it?
Dan: When you see calling His disciples, He called them immediately into mission. He said to them “Follow Me and I will make you fishers of people”. When Jesus said His last recorded words to His disciples it was about mission “Go make disciples” and “you will be My witnesses”. So when Jesus told His disciples about the church he would build through them – it was about them being on mission. The church is to be a community on mission. The church is to be bringing the good news to people of who Jesus is, about salvation, about the joy and abundant life He brings, and about how people then are brought into this mission as they follow Him. The church is the body of Jesus sent into a broken and hurting world to help. To help people in need get tangible physical and emotional needs and for justice in the name of Jesus to occur. I am rambling now, but a short answer would be the church as Jesus intended would be a church full of love, grace and hope on mission.
David: Unfortunately, all too often that’s not the way it “really is,” or at least the way those outside the church see it. Why the disconnect, in your opinion?
Dan: I think the church slowly lost sight of our place in the world. We isolated ourselves in what I describe as the Christian sub-culture or bubble. So we turned “mission” into what is often strange evangelism programs or methods. So we would escape our sub-culture in spurts to “evangelize” and the return to our Christian bubble. I think what happens then is that the world around us doesn’t get to know us as human beings and as friends. I just read in a book that only 51% of people say they don’t know any evangelical Christians, even casually. So the ones so many do know are when we are out proselytizing in generally ineffective methods of the past. They only know us through when we “evangelize” and in today’s world our evangelistic methods are not as effective as they used to be. Or they know us through when the media covers some bad thing some Christian leader did. So Christianity is defined by media, the loudest voices out there and our evangelistic methods.
David: Share with us your thoughts on culture…it is good, bad, indifferent, etc. What would you say about it and how we as the church should view it?
Dan: Culture is the world we live in. Like anything, it has good things and bad things as part of it. Jesus told us to be in the world. We should not endorse sin or evil and need to be careful we do not compromise Scripture being in the world. But I see culture as people. People whom God loves. People whom Jesus died for. So we need to be students of culture. Not obsessed with it, but at least understanding the world we live in. I find it fascinating that Christians who go on the mission overseas of course study the culture they go into. But here in the USA we don’t do that for the culture we live in. I think we need to step back and take a look at our culture like an anthropologist or missionary coming into our culture would.
David: With that in mind, how do we as the church engage culture appropriately to demonstrate and exhibit the love of Christ in a transforming, redeeming way?
Dan: This sounds so simplistic, but to me it is about relationships and trust. If Christians would only be friends with those outside the faith – that is what I mean. Most of the time we only do that when we see people as targets. Or if they don’t respond to a gospel presentation we move on. But the simple answer is simply being friends with those outside the church so people have trust built and don’t think we are all the often creepy, irrelevant, backwards thinking people many do think when they think about Christians. I also believe that our churches need to be expressions of our local culture. Not jumping on trends by any means, or compromising Scripture. But in the early church, they were expressions of their neighborhoods. We have created these strange sub-cultural communities that are not speaking to those outside. I will be explaining more about this when I am there with you.
David: Why is this so important for the church to address?
Dan: Because the statistics are showing we are losing generations right now from our churches. It isn’t just about losing a generation, it is about them not understanding and knowing the saving grace of Jesus and what that means to their life in this life and in the life to come. It should strike an urgency in our hearts as we scan our churches and see them growing older and older and not as many younger people in them anymore.
David: Finally, in your opinion, if churches are ready to make the changes necessary to engage culture as they should, what’s the number one issue or area that they need to address in our world today that potentially can make the biggest impact for the Kingdom?
Dan: For Christians to not just read about what Jesus taught about – but to actually live it and take risks and be on mission for Him. But it takes church leadership to set the culture for that. And this is what I will be speaking on next week when we are together and give examples of churches who are doing this. So I will be raising some uncomfortable questions and maybe even make some feel uneasy – but then I will give hope and tell of stories how local churches all across America are making changes and seeing new generations come to know Jesus as Savior and then joining in on the mission for Jesus. There are so many wonderful things happening now in places. So I hope to be a voice that raises the challenges we face, but points to a hopeful future. I look forward to being there with you!
If you have a question for Dan or want his reaction to a thought you have on this subject, send it to me in the comments section and we’ll have Dan answer it at the conference that day.
Here’s hoping I see you here in Columbia, Maryland, next Tuesday, May 12 for “A Day with Dan Kimball!”